chat transcript

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 03:51:29 PM EDT] Ed Seykota : Hi David !

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 03:52:01 PM EDT] David de Hilster : hi

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 03:52:06 PM EDT] Ed Seykota : I see you are demonstrating the disappearance of mass.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 03:54:35 PM EDT] Roy Keys : Hi all.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 03:58:57 PM EDT] Dowdye : Hello All

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 03:59:56 PM EDT] Dowdye : I just sent Crothers an E-mail about an hour ago, I got the time missed up myself. I thought I missed his presentation.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:01:05 PM EDT] Dowdye : You are not alone. I did the same, but error in the opposite directions

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:01:29 PM EDT] Ed Seykota : Time Dilation: if the time is too early, your eye pupils still show dilation.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:02:01 PM EDT] Bent Kargaard Nielsen : Audio and video are "frozen" at my end I leave to reboot

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:03:28 PM EDT] Bernard Feldman : hi everyone from Bernie Feldman

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:03:38 PM EDT] Bob de : Good Afternoon Dav e

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:10:12 PM EDT] harry ricker : All good here.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:10:13 PM EDT] Bent Kargaard Nielsen : Yes

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:10:16 PM EDT] baunes : yes

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:10:16 PM EDT] Nick Percival : Yes

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:14:18 PM EDT] harry ricker : Lets go.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:26:25 PM EDT] Dowdye : Yes

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:26:27 PM EDT] Bent Kargaard Nielsen : Ywes

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:26:35 PM EDT] Nick Percival : yes

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:35:20 PM EDT] David de Hilster : wow

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:35:43 PM EDT] David de Hilster : we're living in the 21st century or the 12th???

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:35:45 PM EDT] David de Hilster : :-(

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:47:45 PM EDT] David de Hilster : It's already a mess. Do these guys ever go through this? How can they live with themselves??

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:50:05 PM EDT] David de Hilster : This reminds me of Carezani's treatment of SR's derivation.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:51:21 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Sounds like neutrino people disregarding the neutrino's origin.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:51:28 PM EDT] Ed Seykota : what essential difference do you see between r = 0 and r = d, where d is as small as you please.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:58:39 PM EDT] David de Hilster : who is attendee23?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 04:59:41 PM EDT] harry ricker : David, I need to look at Carezani's work. Need help.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:00:00 PM EDT] David de Hilster : http://www.autodynamics.org

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:00:13 PM EDT] harry ricker : Looked at that.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:01:01 PM EDT] David de Hilster : In my opinion, he has the best analysis of what went wrong with SR's derivation.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:01:56 PM EDT] David de Hilster : http://derivations.autodynamics.org

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:01:57 PM EDT] harry ricker : S^2 is a circle.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:10:10 PM EDT] harry ricker : Here is the problem.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:18:08 PM EDT] David de Hilster : The r reminds me of the u versus v in Carezani's observations of SR.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:18:38 PM EDT] David de Hilster : u and v in SR are different but they equate them. Why? Because.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:19:05 PM EDT] harry ricker : Its worse than that. The trick is that ds^2 is zero, but they dont acknowledge that fact.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:19:28 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Sounds like the neutrino zoo of explanations

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:20:05 PM EDT] David de Hilster : How many tricks, mistakes, overlooking, manipulating can these guys do in one derivation.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:20:25 PM EDT] David de Hilster : :-/

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:20:27 PM EDT] harry ricker : This is not at all different from special relativity in which the mathematics is bogu s.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:21:32 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Carezani's showing that deriving Lorentz has two very bad mistakes. This is simply the same junk in 3-D integral / space-time mumbo jumbo

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:21:33 PM EDT] harry ricker : No such thing as spece-time continnum.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:22:12 PM EDT] harry ricker : Seee my posts at NPA Chat for why SR is faulty.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:22:24 PM EDT] David de Hilster : No such thing as a perfect continuum in the physical world. Putting space and time together is even more fantasy.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:22:55 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Other than that, GR is great!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:22:58 PM EDT] David de Hilster : :-(

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:23:07 PM EDT] Ted Banta : It is perhaps .. just the love of mathematics for mathematics sake - but is devoid of nature .. reality or adherence to loogic

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:23:10 PM EDT] harry ricker : The problem is that time is imaginary, in this Minsokski metric.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:23:44 PM EDT] harry ricker : Now if time is imaginary, what does the equation x=ct, mean?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:24:06 PM EDT] David de Hilster : These physicists group too much together, set too much to zero, and use symbols while loosing track of what they mean physically.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:24:13 PM EDT] harry ricker : It means the distance is also imaginary.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:24:24 PM EDT] David de Hilster : LOL

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:24:50 PM EDT] harry ricker : Hence the metric signature must be either all positive or all negative.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:24:58 PM EDT] Robert Kerr : Sp ace is a five dimensional entity. Bob Kerr

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:24:59 PM EDT] David de Hilster : units equal, but it is physical non-sense.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:25:06 PM EDT] Joe Bova : This has been an excellent presentation. Unfortunately I need to go. I have many questions, and I know that there is more... -Joe

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:25:08 PM EDT] David de Hilster : why not 12?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:25:23 PM EDT] David de Hilster : THanks joe for coming!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:33:04 PM EDT] David de Hilster : holly dow.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:33:06 PM EDT] David de Hilster : cow

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:33:18 PM EDT] David de Hilster : My brain is hurting trying to understand the magic.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:34:12 PM EDT] Robert Kerr : A black hole is the remnent of a Nova where light is depleated in a manner in inverse direction to mass formation. Bob Kerr

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:34:35 PM EDT] David de Hilster : That is something, but not a black hole.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:34:53 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Crothers is showing us the mainstream's black hole math and physics is non-sense.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:35:11 PM EDT] David de Hilster : There are dense object in the universe but they have nothing to do with black holes.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:35:23 PM EDT] Bob de : If you go back to the beginning and set C and G to their nominal values, what will happen ?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:35:26 PM EDT] David de Hilster : We should band the words black hole from our vocabulary.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:36:07 PM EDT] harry ricker : David, Of course it is. The entire mathematics of Lorentz transformations is nonsense, Minkowski space is nonsense. So why should this be different?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:36:14 PM EDT] David de Hilster : wow

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:36:23 PM EDT] Bernard Feldman : i can't follow the mathematics; however i am intrigued by my perception of the physics of gravity as a relation of masses influenced by relations with an ideal gas type ether, as opposed to gravity as a direct propeerty of matter. So the latter is necessary for a black hole. also i argue that there are no examples of a singularity in nature. my question is: is there any correlation between my perceptions of the physical basis for no black holes and the mathematecal arguments of the speaker.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:36:34 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Circularity is great.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:36:37 PM EDT] harry ricker : It is all based on tautology, that is circular reasoning.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:36:42 PM EDT] David de Hilster : LOL

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:37:06 PM EDT] David de Hilster : I'm going to quit science. It's too broke to fix.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:37:09 PM EDT] David de Hilster : :-(

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:37:50 PM EDT] harry ricker : You think think is a mess, think about the fact that the same people are telling us global warming is real.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:38:05 PM EDT] Dowdye : David, if you quit, I'll quit...

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:38:08 PM EDT] Greg Volk : "Black hole" = "center of mass"?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:38:46 PM EDT] David de Hilster : ok, ok. I have a movie to finish and blow open this whole thing (black hole thing).

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:39:18 PM EDT] harry ricker : Tautology is where you fudge the math to get the result you are trying to get. This is what climate change is all about.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:39:18 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Between you Dowdye and Crothers, Einstein is now a simple patent clerk once again.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:39:52 PM EDT] harry ricker : Dont blame him alone. He had a lot of hepl in making the mess.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:39:59 PM EDT] David de Hilster : True.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:40:33 PM EDT] Ed Seykota : p hysics = f(politics)

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:41:13 PM EDT] harry ricker : Correct!!!!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:41:22 PM EDT] David de Hilster : It takes many cooks to make such a deep mess.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:42:50 PM EDT] David de Hilster : I have to stop Steve. I'm can't take this much BS from the mainstream at once. I'm getting sick! :-(

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:43:55 PM EDT] harry ricker : Dont they invoke a weak field approximation???

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:44:02 PM EDT] Robert Kerr : Photons have a mass of 7.375 times 10 to the miniture of forty eight grams and a density of 4.124 times10 to the 28 grams per cc at standard conditions! Bob Kerr

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:44:04 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Is ANYTHING left in GR??? Carezani and Crothers and Dowdye are mass murderering relativity.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:44:39 PM EDT] Roy Keys : See

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:44:42 PM EDT] harry ricker : David, I murdered the space-time theory at its foundation in my NPA posts.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:45:15 PM EDT] David de Hilster : I have to report all of you to homeland security for sciencide!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:46:11 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Let's all move to Mars and start over. Let's leave relativity behind.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:46:36 PM EDT] harry ricker : The whole thing hinges on the metric element ds^2. This is zero and in effect the equations are about nothing at all. Becausae it is all equal to zero.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:46:48 PM EDT] Greg Volk : What escapes from what?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:47:02 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Flies escape from windshields.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:47:20 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Touche

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:47:27 PM EDT] harry ricker : This goes to the question of why gravity escapes but nothing else.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:48:09 PM EDT] David de Hilster : WORMHOLES???

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:48:26 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Finity forever (or is that an oxymoron?)

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:48:38 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Finity for a really long time

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:48:38 PM EDT] harry ricker : This means the theory is non-falsifiable.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:48:42 PM EDT] David de Hilster : I hate hate (also a good one).

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:49:18 PM EDT] David de Hilster : WOW

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:49:35 PM EDT] David de Hilster : What about all the Discovery programs with great graphics???

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:50:12 PM EDT] Robert Kerr : Light is the photon pressure so it exceeds the the velosity oof more massive entities including the electron. B ob Kerr

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:50:22 PM EDT] harry ricker : Black holes are a good script for a movie. OH, Disney already made one.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:51:19 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Journalists and tv people and science evangelists also perpetuate the myths.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:51:34 PM EDT] Dowdye : good point harry ricker made: if light can't escape, how does gravity make it out??? Look at the MASS at the center of the GALAXY: We can see the stars orbiting the thing, and lo and behold, the LIGHT is making it out!!!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:52:21 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Yet, there are jets that supposedly shoot out of black holes.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:52:29 PM EDT] David de Hilster : What about those?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:52:59 PM EDT] harry ricker : That is the hallmark of relativists.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:53:09 PM EDT] Dowdye : OK David, there is another contradiction you pointed out!!!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:53:14 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Can we put people in jail for this?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:53:46 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Black holes suck everything in, yet there are jets of stuff coming out.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:53:58 PM EDT] Dowdye : Hey, let take it to the HIGH COURTS...

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:54:28 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Carezani also says black holes don't suck. Gravity is a finite force so how could the graviational force of black holes be so great? Gravity is a finite force.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:54:50 PM EDT] Roy Keys : "The essential result of this investigation is a clear understanding as to why the Schwarzschild singularities do not exist in physical reality." -Einstein, 1939.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:55:28 PM EDT] harry ricker : Where did he say that?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:56:16 PM EDT] David de Hilster : "If Einstein was a member of the World Science Database video conferences, he would renounce relativity and comb his hair" - D. de Hilster

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:56:18 PM EDT] Roy Keys : Ann. Math 40 (1939), 992. quoted in the link I sent above.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:57:00 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Great quote. Thanks, Roy.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:58:05 PM EDT] Greg Volk : I like Al's hair.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:58:20 PM EDT] David de Hilster : I need his hair for the film. True! ;-)

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:58:32 PM EDT] David de Hilster : He did provide us the archtype for we mad scientists.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:58:36 PM EDT] Greg Volk : I wish I had more hair.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 05:58:41 PM EDT] David de Hilster : LOL!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:01:12 PM EDT] harry ricker : Recall that I said that it is impossible for the signature to be different. They must all be plus or minus.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:01:30 PM EDT] Bernard Feldman : David, I've got to go. If Steve comments on my question ,please forwrd it to me, Bernie

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:01:54 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Will do

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:02:11 PM EDT] Bernard Feldman : thanks and bye.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:02:21 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Thanks bernard!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:04:30 PM EDT] harry ricker : Note what I said aboue about how the space-time metric is derived.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:04:52 PM EDT] harry ricker : Yeah!!!!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:06:43 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Telling it how it is

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:10:03 PM EDT] Ted Banta : whew

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:10:12 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Ouch

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:10:41 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Poor Albert, relegated to a pop figure.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:11:31 PM EDT] Ted Banta : and I thought I was a dissident

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:11:57 PM EDT] David de Hilster : We're pikers compared to Crothers! ;-)

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:12:18 PM EDT] Ted Banta : putzer maybe

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:14:43 PM EDT] harry ricker : Not in euclidean space.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:15:19 PM EDT] David de Hilster : This is what Carezani found with SR.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:22:47 PM EDT] Greg Volk : David, I think the Aussiesw got the wrong time, since many of them came late. Don't know what the bug is.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:23:30 PM EDT] David de Hilster : There is a bug in the for Sydney but the other times are ok. In version 2 of the database, I'm fixing all this and will fix version 1.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:23:38 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Timezones are tough.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:23:54 PM EDT] Dowdye : Hello ALL: I will have to check out soon!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:24:00 PM EDT] David de Hilster : I messed up with Crothers. It was 6 am not 8 am in the morning. I had to wake him. My bad.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:24:06 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Thanks for coming Ed!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:24:14 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Apologies to Sydney.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:24:24 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Yes.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:25:08 PM EDT] David de Hilster : I did 23 times at the start.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:26:03 PM EDT] David de Hilster : wow, a great analysis of what went wrong.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:26:34 PM EDT] Roy Keys : Sorry but I must leave. Thanks and apologies.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:26:44 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Bye, Roy

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:27:57 PM EDT] David de Hilster : we still here?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:28:41 PM EDT] Nick Percival : David, he's asking for next slide

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:29:00 PM EDT] David de Hilster : I've lost audio

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:29:32 PM EDT] Greg Volk : David, can you change slides

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:29:33 PM EDT] Nick Percival : move to final picture

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:29:49 PM EDT] harry ricker : Technical difficulties.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:29:53 PM EDT] Steve Crothers : audio has ceased

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:30:04 PM EDT] Greg Volk : David went into a black hole

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:30:04 PM EDT] Nick Percival : We can still hear

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:30:10 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Steve restart your AV

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:30:20 PM EDT] David Smith : We can hear you Steve, but apparently David de H can't

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:30:33 PM EDT] Greg Volk : David, can barely hear you.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:30:36 PM EDT] Nick Percival : Steve tell david which slide you want

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:30:53 PM EDT] Nick Percival : yes, very low

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:31:16 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Now we know what David Smith looks like.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:31:26 PM EDT] Steve Crothers : David, I close discussion here, but please post my final diagram

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:31:28 PM EDT] David Smith : Poor buggas!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:32:00 PM EDT] Bob Kerr : Your contentions are not consistant with established reality. Consequently he his mathematics is not valid. He needs a viable understanding to draw conclusions. Bob Kerr

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:32:05 PM EDT] Nick Percival : David probably slide 52

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:33:53 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Fabulous presentation. Thanks.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:33:57 PM EDT] Nick Percival : 1) So your points on Schwarzschild would imply that the Kerr metric for rotating black holes ( & Kerr-Newman) are similarly flawed. Right?2) Is it correct to say that, up until slide 37 on Field Equations, the presentation focussed on problems with mis-constructed and mis-applied solutions for GRT and only then did it go on to discuss, from time to time, problems with (the original) GRT itself?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:34:16 PM EDT] Ed Seykota : I wonder if Minkowski space and Schwarzschild space give equivalent results for very small and finite r.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:34:21 PM EDT] Dowdye : GOOD JOB Crothers

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:34:22 PM EDT] Bent Kargaard Nielsen : We hear you David

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:34:29 PM EDT] Yuri Keilman : Steve: You are trying to improve GR Do you think that GR is still right in principle, that the metric tensor can be influenced by masses, physical fields...? Or, may be, you are on the course to crush GR completely?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:34:38 PM EDT] Nick Percival : 1) So your points on Schwarzschild would imply that the Kerr metric for rotating black holes ( & Kerr-Newman) are similarly flawed. Right?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:34:46 PM EDT] Nick Percival : 2) Is it correct to say that, up until slide 37 on Field Equations, the presentation focussed on problems with mis-constructed and mis-applied solutions for GRT and only then did it go on to discuss, from time to time, problems with (the original) GRT itself?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:34:49 PM EDT] Dowdye : We can all hear you

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:35:15 PM EDT] Ed Seykota : I wonder if Minkowski space and Schwarzschild space results are equivalent for very small and finite r.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:35:34 PM EDT] Ed Seykota : .

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:35:49 PM EDT] harry ricker : Can you pass me the mic.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:36:30 PM EDT] David de Hilster : anyone want a mic?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:36:42 PM EDT] Ed Seykota : test

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:36:48 PM EDT] Jim Marsen : do you reject Special Relativity as well?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:37:16 PM EDT] Greg Volk : You mentioned earlier than R(r) is non-Euclidean. Could one regard a non-Euclidean distance in 3D space as Euclidean in 4D space?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:37:25 PM EDT] Yuri Keilman : bad feedback

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:37:35 PM EDT] Nick Percival : Thanks!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:37:43 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Yuri, Steve has no headset.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:37:54 PM EDT] Bent Kargaard Nielsen : Great to see a tasmanian devil rip up the carcass of SR and GR

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:38:16 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Harry, turn your mic off.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:38:45 PM EDT] David de Hilster : anyone else want a mic?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:39:34 PM EDT] David de Hilster : yes!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:39:38 PM EDT] Greg Volk : I'd like a mic

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:39:43 PM EDT] David Smith : Yep we can all hear you Steve

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:40:11 PM EDT] harry ricker : I am sure Greg has a comment on the Maxwell's equations.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:40:17 PM EDT] Greg Volk : I'm sorry, but my mic doesn't plug in correctly. Sorry.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:40:26 PM EDT] Richard Jesch : Thank you for illustrating the original work of Schwarzschild and showing how it was intended before others corrupted it.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:40:28 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Wrong jack

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:42:11 PM EDT] harry ricker : The problem seems to be that Minkowski four space is nonsense.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:43:53 PM EDT] Ted Banta : Stephen - thank you .. this is a clear and effective presentation - tho' I need some time to digest it - my congratulations .. well done

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:48:55 PM EDT] Roger Tobie : Seems to me that the Emperor has no clothe. Neat.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:49:03 PM EDT] harry ricker : Science is prone to faddism and the bandwagon effect.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:49:41 PM EDT] Ed Seykota : Question : I wonder if Minkowski space and Schwarzschild space results are equivalent for very small and finite r.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:50:04 PM EDT] David de Hilster : we'll do your question next ed.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:50:04 PM EDT] Jim Marsen : do you have an alternative to GR?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:52:20 PM EDT] Ed Seykota : Thank you.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:52:45 PM EDT] harry ricker : Newtonian gravitation.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:52:48 PM EDT] David de Hilster : No invention!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:52:56 PM EDT] David de Hilster : We have too much to reconstruct.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:53:06 PM EDT] David de Hilster : It does not need placement.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:53:21 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Thomas Kuhn perpetuates the idea that we have to replace a theory.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:54:03 PM EDT] harry ricker : David, Kuhn has been discedited by modern philosophers of science.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:54:27 PM EDT] Jim Marsen : It was just a question not a criticizm

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:54:31 PM EDT] David de Hilster : yes

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:54:44 PM EDT] Dowdye : Steve, Keep up the good work, you know, the observations are all on your side: the more they see out in the cosmos of deep space, the lass the mainstream understands. The so-called DARK MATTER does not report back info on Gravitational Lensing!!! No evidence!!!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:54:46 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Jim, absolutely, not take that way by us! :-)

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:55:27 PM EDT] harry ricker : Yeah!!!!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:55:38 PM EDT] Greg Volk : The alternative is "center of mass"

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:55:48 PM EDT] Jim Marsen : have you heard of a paper by Rosen in the 50's that gives the same reaults as GR by assuming a variable density gravitational potential

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:55:48 PM EDT] Dowdye : They should say: SUPER MASSIVE OBJECT... THAT'S IT

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:55:51 PM EDT] Greg Volk : The alternative is "center of mass"

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:55:52 PM EDT] Ed Seykota : Good Job !

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:56:08 PM EDT] David Smith : Plasmoid?...

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:56:39 PM EDT] Bent Kargaard Nielsen : My personal conclusion: Too few "mainstream phycisiststs" bothers to scrutinize the original sources of science.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:56:40 PM EDT] harry ricker : It is the responsibility of the investigaattors to provide data to use to find the solution.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:57:13 PM EDT] harry ricker : They ignore such original sources.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:57:34 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Thanks, again, Steve. Great stuff.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:58:15 PM EDT] Ed Seykota : Dave, thank you for hosting this forum.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:58:23 PM EDT] Richard Jesch : Two of my favorite disagreements with mainstream illuminated, black holes and neutrinos, that only leaves Big Bang BRAVO!!! Thanks

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:58:30 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Thanks to Greg VOlk for setting these up!

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:58:44 PM EDT] Jim Marsen : who was that?

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:59:14 PM EDT] Dowdye : STEVE, if your in the US, do come to NASA Goddard in Greenbelt Maryland

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 06:59:45 PM EDT] harry ricker : He is saying that the backlobe of the antennas are producing the measurd noise.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 07:01:50 PM EDT] Greg Volk : thanks to all the speakers, too.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 07:02:05 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Steve, let me know.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 07:02:46 PM EDT] David Smith : Cool bananas guys, thanks for the great forum, thanks for the talk Steve, keep up the good work.

[Sat 11 Jul 2009 07:03:11 PM EDT] Dowdye : KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK