chat transcript

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 09:52:50 AM EDT] Franco Selleri : For the moment I hear nothing!

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 09:56:10 AM EDT] Ram : Me Ram: Hello, Greg & David: Prof. Rati Ram Sharma

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:01:29 AM EDT] Bob de : 93

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:07:52 AM EDT] Ram : Hello, Dr. Walter Babin, Very good morning from Prof. Rati Ram Sharma

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:09:12 AM EDT] john v milewsli : hello

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:09:30 AM EDT] Ben Solomon : I could not heay David, you are breaking up

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:10:45 AM EDT] Ram : Ram, Hello good morning Greg from Prof. Rati Ram Sharma

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:11:09 AM EDT] john v milewsli : fff

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:11:21 AM EDT] Greg Volk : Good morning, Prof. Sharma et al

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:12:34 AM EDT] Walter Babin : Hello Prof. Sharma

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:15:58 AM EDT] David de Hilster : yes we hear you

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:16:04 AM EDT] Bent Kargaard Nielsen : I Hear you

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:16:26 AM EDT] Greg Volk : A little louder would be good. thanks.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:16:34 AM EDT] Steve Hurrell : I hear you.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:17:16 AM EDT] Thomas Lockyer : Tom Lockyer: I hear you

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:18:24 AM EDT] David de Hilster : speak up a bit Ben!

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:19:26 AM EDT] Steve Hurrell : I hear you

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:23:01 AM EDT] Greg Volk : If tau has units of velocity inverse (T/L), then g = tau * c^2 has units of velocity. Where did I go wrong?

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:23:40 AM EDT] harry ricker : Change in time dilation is not time.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:33:26 AM EDT] David de Hilster : Every dissident should have such a goal: transport people to space for a couple of hundred dollars. WOW!

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:35:21 AM EDT] harry ricker : David, we should be worried that they may do that just to get rid of us!!!

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:35:40 AM EDT] David de Hilster : they = ?

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:35:52 AM EDT] harry ricker : Good question>

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:38:47 AM EDT] Robert Archer Kerr : Bob Kerr: How about something real. This is a very confusing game that ignores reallity I can't see anything that explains anything realistically.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:40:11 AM EDT] Walter Babin : Micro macro deformations should be the natural outcome of classical forces regardless of source

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:40:17 AM EDT] john v milewsli : David How do I get my slides to you for next week John V M Call me later 505 856 6259

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:40:19 AM EDT] harry ricker : He is staying close to accepted physics so that he wont be seen as an obvious crackpot.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:40:30 AM EDT] Greg Volk : Ben has done some very interesting experiments: Laithwait's stuff in greater detail.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:40:49 AM EDT] Greg Volk : Laithwaite.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 10:43:25 AM EDT] David de Hilster : Ben's slides are very graphic intensive, so be patient.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:01:51 AM EDT] Greg Volk : I think this equation is very important, but the units don't match. There must be a scaling constant in sqrt(length).

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:08:37 AM EDT] Stoyan Sarg : I replicated Liitwait experiment putting a giroscope balanced in an arm with acounterweght on a sensitive weightmeter. No mass decrease. The observed tilt of the arm is cause by redistribution of the non rotating )counter-wegth mass and rotating gyroscope.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:09:53 AM EDT] Greg Volk : Dr. Sarg, do you have formulas to explain the effects?

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:13:47 AM EDT] Bent Kargaard Nielsen : Well Stoyan - Have you considered testing the experiment with two symettrical placed gyroscopes?

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:14:29 AM EDT] Greg Volk : Thank you, Ben. Good job.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:15:22 AM EDT] Stoyan Sarg : To Greg: I only tested to see is the Laightweit effect could be used for mass weight modification. My conclusion was: no.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:15:46 AM EDT] Greg Volk : Yes, I hear you

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:15:52 AM EDT] Greg Volk : May I have a mic?

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:15:52 AM EDT] Glen Robertson : yes

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:15:55 AM EDT] dmann : I hear you as well

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:15:58 AM EDT] Walter Babin : yes

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:20:37 AM EDT] Ram : me, Prof. Rati Ram Sharma; Ben,please consider this. weight W= mass mx gravitational acceleration g i.e. W=mg, a change in W due to change in g appears as a change in m

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:21:38 AM EDT] harry ricker : Very loud

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:21:49 AM EDT] Stoyan Sarg : Podkletnov experiment is under question. NASA spent thousands dollars for replication - not successful. The experiment was provided in the G. Hataway laboratory and it was reported in a journal.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:25:25 AM EDT] Ben Solomon : gyroscopes.org

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:26:08 AM EDT] Ram : Prof. Rati Ram Sharma: May be it is NOT a real change in mass but apparent due to the cahnge in the product of massx acceleration due to a change in effective accelaration

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:26:29 AM EDT] Greg Volk : Dr. Sarg, Podkletnov's stuff is sort of like cold fusion. It requires very precise resonance. However, Laithwaite's experiments are reproducible. What Ben has done is to show that gyroscopic effect alone doesn't explain the complete effect.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:28:43 AM EDT] harry ricker : A lesson to remember is that when scientists tried to reproduce Newton's prism experiment they couldn' t reproduce his claimed effect, that white light is a combination of colors of the spectrum. Today this is a classroom experiment. But they disputed Newton's results gor years.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:32:14 AM EDT] Stoyan Sarg : Greg, Lithwaite is very easy reproducable but closly investigation shows that it is not a weight loss. One of his demonstration that he spins a heavy disk on a long shaft and raised it in helix-like trajectory with a lower force is because he increased the trajectory length.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:33:20 AM EDT] David de Hilster : anyone else want the microphone?

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:33:50 AM EDT] Bent Kargaard Nielsen : I Can't hear Greg Only me?

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:34:00 AM EDT] Ram : Prof. Rati Ram Sharma wants the mic

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:34:03 AM EDT] David de Hilster : yes.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:34:15 AM EDT] Greg Volk : There is a long delay between me and Ben.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:35:10 AM EDT] Greg Volk : I'm still kinda struggling.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:35:20 AM EDT] Greg Volk : I like units to agree.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:35:25 AM EDT] Ram : David please sitch on my mic: Prof Sharma

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:36:09 AM EDT] Ben Solomon : y = mx + c

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:36:09 AM EDT] David de Hilster : THe microphone is passed to you Dr. Sharma.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:36:19 AM EDT] Greg Volk : Also the equation with a = w-s * w-r * srqt(r)

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:36:37 AM EDT] Ben Solomon : y = m . x(1).x(20.x(3) + c

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:36:57 AM EDT] Greg Volk : Also since these are vector quantities, what are the directions of each?

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:37:04 AM EDT] Ram : Sswitch on my mic

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:37:45 AM EDT] Stoyan Sarg : Question to Ben Solomon: Would you tel us something more about the propulsion or mass modification experiment you did or participated?

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:37:46 AM EDT] Greg Volk : OK.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:39:00 AM EDT] Ram : David, mic is not passed on to me yet: Prof. Sharma

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:39:20 AM EDT] David de Hilster : I tried passing the mic to you and nothing happened. I am trying again.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:40:21 AM EDT] Dowdye : Could it be that in these experiment, one finds an EFFECTIVE MASS change due to a modification of "g", where MASS = FORCE (measured)/ACCELERATION

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:41:19 AM EDT] Greg Volk : Yes, Dr. dowdye. You are on the right track.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:41:30 AM EDT] Dowdye : Yes, one measures WEIGHT not MASS, where WEIGHT is a FORCE

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:42:27 AM EDT] Greg Volk : :-/

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:42:36 AM EDT] Ram : Prof.Sharma:I agree with Dowde who has endorsed my point

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:43:37 AM EDT] Greg Volk : Terms like "space-time" or "time dilation" could be useful, though NPAers might define them differently than mainstream.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:44:56 AM EDT] Glen Robertson : to have a mass chance the energy change would have to follow E-mc^2

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:45:36 AM EDT] Ram : Prof. Sharma: I am NOT for the violation of mass conservation. Therefore i inted explaining Ben's observation from W= mg

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:45:38 AM EDT] Glen Robertson : change

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:45:49 AM EDT] Stoyan Sarg : If the propulsion is based on weight (gravitational mass change) but not on an inertial mass change then the propulsion based on this would not work effectively in a deep space.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:46:40 AM EDT] Glen Robertson : That is why acceleration change is more important than mass change.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:51:07 AM EDT] Ram : Prof. Sharm: Ben, you can increase or decrease effective mass changing the direction of the imposed a cceleration relative to the gravitational acceleration.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:51:48 AM EDT] Ram : David, please give me the mic, thanks from Prof Sharma

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:53:24 AM EDT] Thomas Lockyer : Tom Lockyer; The Pound Rebka experiment showed the photon has a relativistic mass affected by gravity.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:54:12 AM EDT] Stoyan Sarg : In case of existance of physical medium (Ether) the gravitation modification can be more logical explained with the manipulation the parameters of the Ether. However the mains stream avoid touching this issue and prefers empirical abstractive theories. Results: not fundamental understanding of Physics and unexpected side effects - some of them dangerous for every living organisms.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:54:28 AM EDT] Dowdye : One of the problem is: in the propulsion/mainstream, we all report to a boss/a manager. We are allowed to go so far AGAINST the MAINSTREAM! That's the problem/Our challenge...

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:58:01 AM EDT] Ram : David please pass on the mic to Prof. Sharma. Thanks

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:58:31 AM EDT] David de Hilster : I have. I have tried 3 times and am trying now.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:58:44 AM EDT] David de Hilster : It is not working on your end, Dr. Sharma.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 11:59:33 AM EDT] Greg Volk : Would Dr. Sarg or Dr. Dowdye like a mic?

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:00:02 PM EDT] Bent Kargaard Nielsen : From Bent to Stoyan: Interesting statement and analysis. I'm sure that mainstream will have to sooner or later change their abstractions in order to cope with reality. (You might like to haave a look at my experiment.)

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:00:44 PM EDT] Dowdye : Pass it to Dr Sarg first. I'll come later.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:01:27 PM EDT] Ram : Prof. Sharma: David my mic is OK.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:01:47 PM EDT] David de Hilster : I've tried passing it to you 4 times but nothing happens.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:02:25 PM EDT] Glen Robertson : The problem with space propulsion is that the field is domenated by Engineering and not science.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:02:44 PM EDT] David de Hilster : That should be a plus? Why is that negative?

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:02:48 PM EDT] Ram : Prof. Sharma, David please ask Ben to read my Qs

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:03:00 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Glen, good point. Both practice AND theory are essential.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:04:04 PM EDT] David de Hilster : In the NPA, it is opposite: it is dominated by theory and not enough engineering!

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:04:09 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Good science consists of constant adjustment of theory due to experiment, and a constant source of new experiments resukting from proposed theory.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:04:24 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Here here!

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:05:03 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Hear hear!;)

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:05:36 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Very good. We need more people listening for sure!

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:05:50 PM EDT] Greg Volk : But hear where? Hear here!

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:06:02 PM EDT] David de Hilster : Hear their

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:06:16 PM EDT] Greg Volk : and everywhere

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:06:25 PM EDT] Ram : Prof. Sharma: Ben, Q is here. It may nOT be real change in mass but apparent due to change in effective acceleration

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:08:04 PM EDT] Glen Robertson : Yes, but the existence science in today's space propulsion is rare. That is the problem.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:09:27 PM EDT] Greg Volk : A little levity is important in any discussion of gravity control.:-P

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:09:42 PM EDT] Glen Robertson : to get funding you need people who can ubderstand the science.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:10:02 PM EDT] Ram : Prof. Sharma: Ben, you may even increase or decrease apparent mass by changing effective acceleration!

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:10:25 PM EDT] Stoyan Sarg : My experiment shown in Youtube as a "SARG propuslion effect" demonstrates a change of mass.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:10:32 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Glen. No theory, no money, even with great experimental results?

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:11:42 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Dr. Sarg, is there a relationship between the Laithwaite Effect and the Sarg Effect?

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:11:57 PM EDT] Ken Seto : acceleration will increase the weight of an object.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:13:13 PM EDT] Bob de : I have check the accuracy and it is quite good!

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:14:00 PM EDT] Bent Kargaard Nielsen : I will certainly have a look at that. My experiment proves (I'm now 99.99% sure that the experiment is ok.)that the aether (or what you wil want to call the medium) exists.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:14:20 PM EDT] Bob de : Ben, you should look into anyway, it might help

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:15:07 PM EDT] David de Hilster : We're going to help verify Bent's experiment.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:15:30 PM EDT] Roger Tobie : Very informative. Thank you all.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:15:40 PM EDT] Roger Tobie : Gotta go now.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:17:41 PM EDT] Dowdye : Very Good Presentation: I think you have a good chance with your experiments as new devices are getting cheaper to obtain in the modern techniques.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:18:30 PM EDT] Bent Kargaard Nielsen : Interesting. I understood some of it! Leaving now

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:20:35 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Kennedy's goal took us to the moon.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:21:45 PM EDT] Steve Hurrell : Interesting talk Ben. I've been interested in this since watching Lathiwaite on the xmas lectures. Hope you get your funding to progress this further.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:21:55 PM EDT] Greg Volk : Thanks again, Ben. Great job.

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:22:37 PM EDT] Dowdye : GOOD GOING

[Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:23:06 PM EDT] Ben Solomon : Thanks folks